Bought a PHEV earlier this year and my “old fashioned” family quickly moved from “that boy ain’t right” to “you get HOW MANY miles per gallon??” And they still can’t compute that I can drive 50 miles on less than $2 of electricity and not a drop of gas.
The numbers make sense, people just need to be shown. It’s where the market is headed, no one should really be considering anything less than hybrid. When my wife’s old Civic dies, it’ll be replaced by a full EV.
Serious question. What happens when the electric grid can no longer support everything, and starts either Browning or blacking out entire city blocks? I’ve seen the numbers, and the EVs are incredible in a lot of ways, but the pull on the grid if every household has an EV is also incredible. Also, supply economics will play a roll eventually, and just like petrol, which used to be 50p/L, electricity costs will rise as demand rises. We need a renewable energy EV. I agree with you, though, that EVs are better in almost every way. Just the grid isn’t ready.
Something like 40% of our electricty in the UK is from renewables - on some days it’s 100%! There are days where we’re having to pay wind farms to NOT generate electricity as we already have an oversupply. I honestly don’t see energy supply as a bottleneck for EV uptake.
This is a deadly ignorant take. If every home has 2 EVs to charge, it won’t make enough of a difference to matter. It’s like leaving on extra lights. Residential solar panels are cheap and only getting cheaper.
Meanwhile, data centers have to build diesel turbines because the grid can’t handle their massive draw. But by all means blame the EVs.
I am worried about the future of fuel taxes at the state and federal level here in the United States. It inevitable that gasoline and diesel taxes will drop if we convert to EV. How will governments recoup this tax reduction?
Edit: This isn’t a criticism of EVs. I’m genuinely curious if this is being considered.
The plan in the UK is to start charging road tax for EVs per-mile, though there’s ongoing discussions about how that will work in practise it’ll probably be based on the mileage recorded during the vehicle’s annual safety checks (“MOT Test”). This seems reasonable enough to me since ICE vehicles essentially pay per-mile based on the amount of fuel the owners buy.
Charging at home isn’t a major issue for the grid IMO, it will be fairly predictable en masse.
Those 1500 kW quick chargers taking the electricity consumption of a small town and putting it into one car for a few minutes will be an issue when many cars happen to be charged at once. It’s coming in future Chinese EVs, but requires compatible chargers of course
I’m not commenting to dogpile on you, I think the others have explained why the grid is less of a concern than you might think.
Just wanted to add that we charge ours primarily using excess solar from our home panels, which is an option through our system management tool. It takes longer, but it means even less grid dependency (and virtually “free” vs paying for electricity, which you’re right, will go up in price… though largely due to data centers now, not EVs).
I won’t be surprised if this becomes the norm for EV drivers in the future, as a kWh in the “tank” is worth more than one backfed into the grid. More responsible use for extra power not immediately used.
Yeah, I’m just nearing the end of my first year with solar, and I know the best thing I can do is use every drop of the energy I get. The power company pays me something like a quarter to a third of what I pay them per kwh.
100%, though I’m thankful to have net metering at all, as I know it’s not available in some areas! Building up some credit to use in the less sunny months is nice, helps offset potential days when production doesn’t exceed consumption.
I hope for my next vehicle to be an EV, but I won’t take anything less that 300 miles range. I know that 90% of my driving can be comfortably done in under 200 range, but I do go on longer trips. I know that recharging has come a long way, and I have no problem hanging out for 15+ min at a station, but I won’t do it every 2-3 hours because that’s all I’ve got.
I’m hoping to get many more years out of my current ride before it dies or becomes too costly to repair vs replace. That gives ample time for battery tech to further improve, and hopefully more and cheaper EVs to the market.
I’m not a car snob by any means, but currently the only EV that really piques my interest is the ionic 5 n, but it’s range is just way too low. I’ve been driving a WRX for a little over 6 years now, and love pretty much everything about it. I hope to someday have an EV equivalent of it.
I usually push 4 hours or about 400 miles when I can on longer trips. I rarely drive late nights anymore, so most of that travel takes place during the light if day. It’s about 4 hours for me to visit my friends in an adjacent state, and I can do that comfortably now under a single tank of gas. That could result a couple of stops on a lower range EV if I didn’t want to push the limits. That’s just something I’m not willing to do right now.
Again, I hope that I can get by without purchasing a new vehicle for many years to come. EVs are getting better and battery tech is improving as well. I think the market will probably meet my needs by the time I’m ready to transition.
Range anxiety is partially what pushed us to go PHEV. We really only use gas if we leave our immediate area, and on longer trips it’s the same as a full ICE car (just with much better efficiency).
I too hope for better batteries and cheaper EVs before my next purchase! Would love to see Chinese cars in the American market to humble these MSRPs.
Not necessarily. My PHEV (a RAV4) reserves a portion of its battery to use in the same way that a non-plugin hybrid does. The vehicle maintains a charge in that portion through regenerative braking and the motion of the engine, so the battery can never truly go dead.
Even if I never charged mine, I could still drive it as if it were a standard hybrid and continue to get ~39MPG highway. But in reality I do charge it and most of my miles per month are all electric (most PHEVs also have pressurized fuel tanks to keep gas from going stale when it’s unused for lengths of time).
I drive a Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV. Highway fuel economy is roughly 6L/100Km (about 30mpg) when driving on a depleted battery. Much better than the 9.5L/100Km (24mpg) from the i30 it replaced.
Not as efficient as a Toyota hybrid, but on daily commutes it uses zero fuel and roughly 20kW/100Km.
So the okay fuel economy is offset by the ability to run on electric for 90% of my driving with no range anxiety.
have no problem hanging out for 15+ min at a station, but I won’t do it every 2-3 hours because that’s all I’ve got.
And there’s me planning a 2000mi road trip in my '22 Bolt next month lmao. It’ll add several hours to my trip as each stop is 30min-1hr
(The old model Bolts charge pretty slow compared to most modern EVs - 50kw max.)
If I had a Hyundai or something similarly fast charging it would cut my trip by ~5 hours each way. But I almost never take trips over 300mi by car. A few times a decade, maybe.
Bought a PHEV earlier this year and my “old fashioned” family quickly moved from “that boy ain’t right” to “you get HOW MANY miles per gallon??” And they still can’t compute that I can drive 50 miles on less than $2 of electricity and not a drop of gas.
The numbers make sense, people just need to be shown. It’s where the market is headed, no one should really be considering anything less than hybrid. When my wife’s old Civic dies, it’ll be replaced by a full EV.
That sounds suspiciously like math, liburul.
Serious question. What happens when the electric grid can no longer support everything, and starts either Browning or blacking out entire city blocks? I’ve seen the numbers, and the EVs are incredible in a lot of ways, but the pull on the grid if every household has an EV is also incredible. Also, supply economics will play a roll eventually, and just like petrol, which used to be 50p/L, electricity costs will rise as demand rises. We need a renewable energy EV. I agree with you, though, that EVs are better in almost every way. Just the grid isn’t ready.
Now do data centers.
Something like 40% of our electricty in the UK is from renewables - on some days it’s 100%! There are days where we’re having to pay wind farms to NOT generate electricity as we already have an oversupply. I honestly don’t see energy supply as a bottleneck for EV uptake.
That is an unrelated issue, clearly.
This is a deadly ignorant take. If every home has 2 EVs to charge, it won’t make enough of a difference to matter. It’s like leaving on extra lights. Residential solar panels are cheap and only getting cheaper.
Meanwhile, data centers have to build diesel turbines because the grid can’t handle their massive draw. But by all means blame the EVs.
But isn’t a residential grid just another form of socialism?
Is it really worth the investment from government?
Obviously depends on where you live, but factor in climate change and ever increasing demand with decades on neglect…
I am worried about the future of fuel taxes at the state and federal level here in the United States. It inevitable that gasoline and diesel taxes will drop if we convert to EV. How will governments recoup this tax reduction?
Edit: This isn’t a criticism of EVs. I’m genuinely curious if this is being considered.
The plan in the UK is to start charging road tax for EVs per-mile, though there’s ongoing discussions about how that will work in practise it’ll probably be based on the mileage recorded during the vehicle’s annual safety checks (“MOT Test”). This seems reasonable enough to me since ICE vehicles essentially pay per-mile based on the amount of fuel the owners buy.
Higher registration. Like… A bunch higher.
Charging at home isn’t a major issue for the grid IMO, it will be fairly predictable en masse.
Those 1500 kW quick chargers taking the electricity consumption of a small town and putting it into one car for a few minutes will be an issue when many cars happen to be charged at once. It’s coming in future Chinese EVs, but requires compatible chargers of course
I’m not commenting to dogpile on you, I think the others have explained why the grid is less of a concern than you might think.
Just wanted to add that we charge ours primarily using excess solar from our home panels, which is an option through our system management tool. It takes longer, but it means even less grid dependency (and virtually “free” vs paying for electricity, which you’re right, will go up in price… though largely due to data centers now, not EVs).
I won’t be surprised if this becomes the norm for EV drivers in the future, as a kWh in the “tank” is worth more than one backfed into the grid. More responsible use for extra power not immediately used.
Yeah, I’m just nearing the end of my first year with solar, and I know the best thing I can do is use every drop of the energy I get. The power company pays me something like a quarter to a third of what I pay them per kwh.
100%, though I’m thankful to have net metering at all, as I know it’s not available in some areas! Building up some credit to use in the less sunny months is nice, helps offset potential days when production doesn’t exceed consumption.
Congrats on going solar!
Two things: decentralized generation (solar on roofs everywhere) and market forces (demand drives grid buildout)
That’ll happen regardless of EVs. You can’t drop a source of power without shifting the load onto something else.
I hope for my next vehicle to be an EV, but I won’t take anything less that 300 miles range. I know that 90% of my driving can be comfortably done in under 200 range, but I do go on longer trips. I know that recharging has come a long way, and I have no problem hanging out for 15+ min at a station, but I won’t do it every 2-3 hours because that’s all I’ve got.
I’m hoping to get many more years out of my current ride before it dies or becomes too costly to repair vs replace. That gives ample time for battery tech to further improve, and hopefully more and cheaper EVs to the market.
I’m not a car snob by any means, but currently the only EV that really piques my interest is the ionic 5 n, but it’s range is just way too low. I’ve been driving a WRX for a little over 6 years now, and love pretty much everything about it. I hope to someday have an EV equivalent of it.
On long driving trips it is reccomended to stop every 2-3 hours for 10 minutes anyways so I don’t see the stopping to charge as an issue tbh.
I usually push 4 hours or about 400 miles when I can on longer trips. I rarely drive late nights anymore, so most of that travel takes place during the light if day. It’s about 4 hours for me to visit my friends in an adjacent state, and I can do that comfortably now under a single tank of gas. That could result a couple of stops on a lower range EV if I didn’t want to push the limits. That’s just something I’m not willing to do right now.
Again, I hope that I can get by without purchasing a new vehicle for many years to come. EVs are getting better and battery tech is improving as well. I think the market will probably meet my needs by the time I’m ready to transition.
Range anxiety is partially what pushed us to go PHEV. We really only use gas if we leave our immediate area, and on longer trips it’s the same as a full ICE car (just with much better efficiency).
I too hope for better batteries and cheaper EVs before my next purchase! Would love to see Chinese cars in the American market to humble these MSRPs.
But if you leave the electrical zone, it’s even less efficient than gas only, no?
Not necessarily. My PHEV (a RAV4) reserves a portion of its battery to use in the same way that a non-plugin hybrid does. The vehicle maintains a charge in that portion through regenerative braking and the motion of the engine, so the battery can never truly go dead.
Even if I never charged mine, I could still drive it as if it were a standard hybrid and continue to get ~39MPG highway. But in reality I do charge it and most of my miles per month are all electric (most PHEVs also have pressurized fuel tanks to keep gas from going stale when it’s unused for lengths of time).
I drive a Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross PHEV. Highway fuel economy is roughly 6L/100Km (about 30mpg) when driving on a depleted battery. Much better than the 9.5L/100Km (24mpg) from the i30 it replaced.
Not as efficient as a Toyota hybrid, but on daily commutes it uses zero fuel and roughly 20kW/100Km.
So the okay fuel economy is offset by the ability to run on electric for 90% of my driving with no range anxiety.
What’s with Asian manufacturers and shit fuel economy lol
That’s diesel BMW X5 fuel economy territory.
And there’s me planning a 2000mi road trip in my '22 Bolt next month lmao. It’ll add several hours to my trip as each stop is 30min-1hr
(The old model Bolts charge pretty slow compared to most modern EVs - 50kw max.)
If I had a Hyundai or something similarly fast charging it would cut my trip by ~5 hours each way. But I almost never take trips over 300mi by car. A few times a decade, maybe.