Has anyone encountered someone from a country that has had socialist in the past falling for propaganda.
I have a couple friends who know I’m a ML and its difficult to try to discuss communism around them because of how they fall for the anti red propaganda.
I can discuss the issues with them but they often dismiss everything at themselves being an authority on the subject as I do not live in a post socialist society. I ususally write them off as impossible to enter reasonable discussions with and also I focus mostly on the people within my region to agitate. But occasionally they’re a mutual friend or are in the vicinity of the discussion and return to the same old things.
Unnecessary but relevant story:
There was even an incident with a German I met at a party. I talked for a bit about normal stuff and mentioned how hard living was for me in my country because of capitalism and he shut me down not wanting to talk about politics which ofc I respect its a party. But later when I was discussing the feminist progress in socialist countries have accomplished and their impact on our country and culture with a professor I was totally chattin up(she wrote her final thesis on a similar matter), they came over and interrupted the conversation with their own opinions on the matter. Mostly referring to the history in Berlin of which ofc they hands personally experienced. Thankfully this didnt ruin the vibe and us socialists got social lmao.
But Its something I have encountered repeatedly and I’m not sure how to approach it. Especially as someone from a imperial country.
社会主義採用してた国の人とプロパガンダ信じるのがありますか？ 少し友達に僕はMLだを知ってます。プロパガンダひっかかるので、辺で共産主義について話は難しです。
あの人とよく話せますけど、よく僕の意見は無視されますよ。あの人にとって、あの人は共産主義について権威振舞いますよ。あの人とちゃんと話無理と思いますて, 同国人とに焦点変わります。しかし、よくあの人辺がいますて、よく僕の話に遮ります。どうしようかな
[Edit: lmao I misclicked or something into the wrong community ty for the replies tho]
It’s always difficult for people to untangle their own experiences from being universal. It’s a common logical bias for most things, and we are all guilty of it at least occasionally.
“I know better than you because I am __”. It is the classic anecdotes are not evidence.
I personally am economically extremely communist while being very anti-soviet and anti-CCP, because I disagree with their authoritarian methods of enforcing socialism. Having grown up in a former Warsaw pact country I can see a lot of the great things that were outcomes of the communist ideals while simultaneously being surrounded by evidence of the awfulness as well. (And yes, I know “free” countries are also full of authoritarian bullshit and I am against that as well).
I think it’s important to remember that the viewpoints of those who endured or witnessed the outcomes of, for example, soviet, control are recognised and heard. That way we are able to untangle the implicit knots between the bad parts of certain regimes and the actual economic and social principles of different systems. E.g. is capitalism bad because America is an imperialist shitty asshole country which is capitalist? No, it’s bad because its underlying principles are flawed, and they also incentivise America to be a shitty asshole country.
It’s somewhat the same issue as the ad hominem fallacy, but towards a nation as an entity instead of a person.
Any socialist country that exists will need to use the state to oppress capitalists, fascists, and reactionaries. The working class holding state power over capitalists is a good thing. Being “extremely communist” while opposing all possible methods of building socialism isn’t being a communist, it’s letting the perfect version of socialism in your head become the enemy of existing socialism.
Fair points, however, there is a big difference between torture, abuse and murder, and limiting those from corrupting the system. Also, people wanting to live under a different economic system are not fascists I agree that fascism must be harshly dealt with, and it is a major failing of Western society, particularly over the past 5-10 years.
Similarly, complete suppression of the ability to spread and discuss ideas will always lead towards a backwards thinking society.
I do think that with the passage of generations and improvements of education people can revert back to being social creatures rather than individual. Greed is largely taught rather than innate.
I’m not really sure what you’re referring to specifically, because by and large socialist countries have persecuted genuine fascists, capitalists, and those guilty of genuine treason.
You’re a liberal. You have nothing to do with communism. There is no “economically communist”. Read a book and stop posting uninformed drivel.
You can be communist without being imperialist (in the case of the soviets), sending people to gulags, or massacring protesters 🙂
The soviets were not imperialist, and any socialist society will need to imprison fascists and deal with them as class struggle does not end overnight.
Like I said, read a book. You’re a confused liberal.